Sexuality and Leadership

“Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth”

without dividing the Church?

Sexuality and Leadership

The purpose of this page is to promote respect and understanding of two sides of a debate occurring within the Uniting Church in Australia but also in many churches in the world. It is not to promote one side or other. I have expressed my views elsewhere. It is to encourage tolerance and hopefully a basis for living together in unity.

We will not accept practicing

homosexuals as ministers

To do so is contrary to scripture which

condemns homosexual behaviour

We will accept responsible practicing

homosexuals as ministers

To do so is consistent with scripture which

affirms difference and only condemns sin

We want to live together in peace, respecting that we include different views,

and order our lives in that light.

Can we?

Living Together in Peace?

We cannot easily live together when others differ from us

for what seems to us to be no good reason

We can usually find a way of living together

when we see others differing from us for good reasons,

even though we do not find them as strong as ours,

and where we otherwise share enough in common

Let us explore the differences from both sides and also see that that there are many different angles

on each …

Listening to Scripture

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman;

it is an abomination.

Leviticus 18:22

If a man lies with a male as with a woman,

both of them have committed an abomination;

they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Leviticus 20:13

Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, malakoi,* arsenokoitai,* thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers-none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

* = “soft” and “male coitus men” - people engaged in active and passive homosexual acts, normally grown men and boys in puberty and/or male prostitutes

… the lawless and disobedient, for the godless and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their father or mother, for murderers, fornicators, arsenokoitas,* slave traders, liars, perjurer

1 Timothy 1:10

Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the degrading of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another.

Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God,

God gave them up to a debased mind and to things that should not be done.

Romans 1:24-28

Leviticus forbids male sexual intercourse and proscribes the death penalty

Paul declares that people engaging in homosexual acts will not enter the kingdom

and that men and women who have such passions and act on them act contrary to “nature” or their “nature” (how God made us to be in creation)

just as people also fail to acknowledge the true nature of God and worship creatures

Listening to Scripture is not just about texts but about biblical values, principles

Creation Redemption Inclusion Compassion Obedience Wisdom

Interpreting Scripture

We take the Bible seriously!

It condemns homosexual acts.

Some say: it teaches that people have homosexual passions because of sin in humanity.

Some deny this

In either case: They should not act on them.

This fits today as well

Some of us recognise things in the Bible

reflecting its cultural world which no longer apply today (like slavery, roles of women, etc)

but these do not include the same-sex laws

Biblical values of compassion for others must include the way we apply God’s Word and understand God’s creation and should not override these in relation to male and female.

It is still compassion

We take the Bible seriously!

It condemns homosexual acts

and passions of people choosing to live

contrary to their nature.

That is sin.

It is not addressing people for whom homosexual orientation is their nature

Some of us also see the same sex laws of the Bible as reflecting cultural values we should disregard anyway (like slavery, roles of women, prohibiting divorce, death penalty)

Biblical values of compassion and regard for others should guide our approach to all sexual behaviour and towards all people without discrimination, including in leadership and may override some biblical laws

Interpreting Experience

Some of us say:

People with a homosexual orientation suffer from an unnatural condition resulting from fallen humanity

They need help and healing

Others of us say

People may have a homosexual orientation and need not see this as sin or the result of sin;

but their responsibility is to express themselves in ways that cohere with scripture – i.e. not in homosexual actions

Some people do have a natural homosexual orientation.

They do not suffer from a condition nor should they suppress sexuality but live with it responsibly as should heterosexual people

It is unfair and unjust to require celibacy of such people and it can be dangerous to seek to suppress natural sexual expression

as priestly celibacy

has shown

"God made them male and female."

The shape of human bodies makes it obvious that same sex relations are unnatural.

Anal intercourse is unnatural and dangerous.

Homosexual acts can be vehicles of abuse

Yes, for reproduction, but sexuality is about more than reproduction and the act of intercourse;

it can express intimate affection;

The issue is wider than that

Yes, but genuine love never acts in ways that

harm or abuse another

God ordained that male and female join to

become one flesh in marriage.

That is God's order for creation

and we should live accordingly

Same gender relations are wrong also because they are outside marriage.

There is no biblical basis for endorsing same sex marriage or extramarital sex

Some of us say:

Being so-called “gay” is a modern fad

The church shouldn’t chase after fads.

This one traps young people to make permanent

what can be just a developmental phase

In saying this the biblical writers did not envisage naturally homosexual people.

It is unfair to demand they not express their sexuality.

Some seek to do so within their equivalent of committed marriage.

There is biblical basis for

applying flexibility and Christ- centred compassion in all situations - beyond laws

Some of us say:

Being “gay” is a reality for some,

which the Church should take seriously

We should avoid such traps and promote people’s growth in maturity but acknowledge possibly different outcomes

Significant people in history and today

who are homosexual

lived with what they saw either as their condition or as their natural orientation.

Their appropriate response was either

to seek change or at least to live in celibacy.

They should never be abused but be loved like all

others living with such challenges

Significant people in history and today

who are homosexual

sought change and then came to accept their

natural orientation and

have lived inspiring and responsible Christian lives without suppressing their sexuality.

They have suffered abuse and discrimination.

Loving them means including them fully.

Beyond Abuse

“They don’t believe the Bible!”

They pick and choose what to believe

based on popular modern views

We think very carefully and caringly

“They are just caving in to today’s values and

ignoring scripture!”

We find some of today’s experts dispute claims

that homosexuality is natural

We do, but we say we need to hear what it really says and engage it with discrimination in the light of its foundational principles

“They are unthinking fundamentalists!”

We take today’s issues seriously

but in the light of scripture

“They ignore today’s expertise about homosexuality as natural!”

Some of us feel passionately that the issue is about turning away from God and the Bible.

It is not compassionate or just towards people to

encourage sin

Some of us feel passionately that the issue comes from the heart of the biblical witness: it is about God’s compassion and justice for people who have suffered wrongly for too long

“It is about upholding God’s will

They are wrong about God’s will”

“It is about upholding God’s will

They are wrong about God’s will”

Without dividing the church?

We will not accept practicing

homosexuals as ministers

We will accept responsible practicing

homosexuals as ministers

We can avoid division “if you agree with us!”

We can postpone the discussion

We can find a way of living with our differences

Where to from here?

We cannot easily live together

when others differ from us

for what seems to us to be no good reason

We can usually find a way of living together

when we see others differing from us for good reasons,

even though we do not find them as strong as ours,

and where we otherwise share enough in common

We could insist our view is made the rule - from either side

or we could find a way of allowing both views to co-exist with mutual respect

We could allow ordination of homosexuals

but also allow individual placements

to decide to accept their ministry or not

and not call it discrimination

prepared by William Loader in consultation with Steve Francis

See also Homosexuality - What does the Bible say about Homosexuality?

Biblical Perspectives on Homosexuality and Leadership a paper prepared for the UCA Doctrine Working Group Colloquium, February 2008 Home

“Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth” without dividing the Church? Sexuality and Leadership The purpose of this page is to promote respect and understanding of two sides of a debate occurring within the Uniting Church in Australia but also in many churches in the world. It is not to promote one side or other. I have expressed my views elsewhere. It is to encourage tolerance and hopefully a basis for living together in unity.
We will not accept practicing homosexuals as ministers To do so is contrary to scripture which condemns homosexual behaviour	We will accept responsible practicing homosexuals as ministers *To do so is consistent with scripture which* *affirms difference and only condemns sin*
*We want to live together in peace,* *respecting that we include different views,* *and order our lives in that light.* *Can we?*
*Living Together in Peace?* We cannot easily live together when others differ from us for what seems to us to be no good reason We can usually find a way of living together when we see others differing from us for good reasons, even though we do not find them as strong as ours, and where we otherwise share enough in common Let us explore the differences from both sides and also see that that there are many different angles on each …
*Listening to Scripture* You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. Leviticus 18:22 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. Leviticus 20:13 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, malakoi,* arsenokoitai,* thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers-none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 * = “soft” and “male coitus men” - people engaged in active and passive homosexual acts, normally grown men and boys in puberty and/or male prostitutes … the lawless and disobedient, for the godless and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their father or mother, for murderers, fornicators, arsenokoitas,* slave traders, liars, perjurer 1 Timothy 1:10 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the degrading of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind and to things that should not be done. Romans 1:24-28 *Leviticus forbids male sexual intercourse and proscribes the death penalty* *Paul declares that people engaging in homosexual acts will not enter the kingdom* *and that men and women who have such passions and act on them act contrary to “nature” or their “nature” (how God made us to be in creation)* *just as people also fail to acknowledge the true nature of God and worship creatures* *Listening to Scripture is not just about texts but about biblical values, principles* Creation Redemption Inclusion Compassion Obedience Wisdom
*Interpreting Scripture*
We take the Bible seriously! It condemns homosexual acts. *Some say: it teaches that people have homosexual passions because of sin in humanity.* Some deny this In either case: They should not act on them. *This fits today as well* **Some of us recognise things in the Bible** reflecting its cultural world which no longer apply today (like slavery, roles of women, etc) **but these do not include the same-sex laws** Biblical values of compassion for others must include the way we apply God’s Word and understand God’s creation and should not override these in relation to male and female. It is still compassion	We take the Bible seriously! It condemns homosexual acts and passions of people choosing to live contrary to their nature. *That is sin.* *It is not addressing people for whom homosexual orientation is their nature* Some of us also see the same sex laws of the Bible as reflecting cultural values we should disregard anyway (like slavery, roles of women, prohibiting divorce, death penalty) Biblical values of compassion and regard for others should guide our approach to all sexual behaviour and towards all people without discrimination, including in leadership and may override some biblical laws
*Interpreting Experience*
*Some of us say:* People with a homosexual orientation suffer from an unnatural condition resulting from fallen humanity They need help and healing Others of us say People may have a homosexual orientation and need not see this as sin or the result of sin; but their responsibility is to express themselves in ways that cohere with scripture – i.e. not in homosexual actions	Some people do have a natural homosexual orientation. They do not suffer from a condition nor should they suppress sexuality but live with it responsibly as should heterosexual people It is unfair and unjust to require celibacy of such people and it can be dangerous to seek to suppress natural sexual expression as priestly celibacy has shown
"God made them male and female." The shape of human bodies makes it obvious that same sex relations are unnatural. Anal intercourse is unnatural and dangerous. Homosexual acts can be vehicles of abuse	Yes, for reproduction, but sexuality is about more than reproduction and the act of intercourse; it can express intimate affection; The issue is wider than that Yes, but genuine love never acts in ways that harm or abuse another
God ordained that male and female join to become one flesh in marriage. That is God's order for creation and we should *live accordingly* Same gender relations are wrong also because they are outside marriage. There is no biblical basis for endorsing same sex marriage or extramarital sex Some of us say: Being so-called “gay” is a modern fad The church shouldn’t chase after fads. This one traps young people to make permanent what can be just a developmental phase	In saying this the biblical writers did not envisage naturally homosexual people. It is unfair to demand they not express their sexuality. Some seek to do so within their equivalent of committed marriage. There is biblical basis for applying flexibility and Christ- centred compassion in *all situations - beyond laws* Some of us say: Being “gay” is a reality for some, which the Church should take seriously We should avoid such traps and promote people’s growth in maturity but acknowledge possibly different outcomes
Significant people in history and today who are homosexual lived with what they saw either as their condition or as their natural orientation. Their appropriate response was either to seek change or at least to live in celibacy. They should never be abused but be loved like all others living with such challenges	Significant people in history and today who are homosexual sought change and then came to accept their **natural orientation and** have lived inspiring and responsible Christian lives without suppressing their sexuality. They have suffered abuse and discrimination. Loving them means including them fully.
*Beyond Abuse*
“They don’t believe the Bible!” They pick and choose what to believe based on popular modern views We think very carefully and caringly “They are just caving in to today’s values and ignoring scripture!” We find some of today’s experts dispute claims that homosexuality is natural	We do, but we say we need to hear what it really says and engage it with discrimination in the light of its foundational principles “They are unthinking fundamentalists!” We take today’s issues seriously but in the light of scripture “They ignore today’s expertise about homosexuality as natural!”
**Some of us feel passionately that the** issue is about turning away from God and the Bible. It is not compassionate or just towards people to encourage sin	**Some of us feel passionately that the** issue comes from the heart of the biblical witness: it is about God’s compassion and justice for people who have suffered wrongly for too long
*“It is about upholding God’s will* They *are wrong about God’s will”*	*“It is about upholding God’s will* They *are wrong about God’s will”*
*Without dividing the church?*
We will not accept practicing homosexuals as ministers	We will accept responsible practicing homosexuals as ministers
*We can avoid division “if* you *agree with* us!” *We can postpone the discussion* *We can find a way of living with our differences*
*Where to from here?* *We cannot easily live together* *when others differ from us* *for what seems to us to be no good reason* *We can usually find a way of living together* *when we see others differing from us for good reasons,* *even though we do not find them as strong as ours,* *and where we otherwise share enough in common* *We could insist our view is made the rule - from either side* *or we could find a way of allowing both views to co-exist with mutual respect* *We could allow ordination of homosexuals* *but also allow individual placements* *to decide to accept their ministry or not* *and not call it discrimination*
prepared by William Loader in consultation with Steve Francis See also Homosexuality - What does the Bible say about Homosexuality? Biblical Perspectives on Homosexuality and Leadership a paper prepared for the UCA Doctrine Working Group Colloquium, February 2008 Home